Cleaning Up You and Your Child's Mental Mess: Lies You’ve Been Told About Your ADHD Brain, Building Habits, and Finding Mental Peace with Dr. Caroline Leaf #209
Oh, the lies you’ve been told about your brain…
Today’s guest challenges the traditional description of ADHD, viewing it not as a disorder, but as a unique collection of traits that showcase different ways of thinking and experiencing emotions.
Dr. Caroline Leaf is a communication pathologist, audiologist, and clinical and cognitive neuroscientist specializing in psychoneurobiology and metacognitive neuropsychology. Her passion is to help people see the power of the mind to change the brain, control chaotic thinking, and find mental peace. She shares her profound knowledge and insights on how the mind can shape and transform the brain, offering hope and practical strategies for finding mental peace in our daily lives.
We dove into everything from habit formation, ADHD brain scans, the difference between the mind and the brain, self-reflection and self-management, and tools to manage our messy minds. This episode is a beautiful blast of science sprinkled with well-earned mothering experience.
Her latest book, How to Help Your Child Clean Up Their Mental Mess: A Guide to Building Resilience and Managing Mental Health, is available now.
Learn more about Dr. Leaf at:
Her website: https://drleaf.com/
Her social media:
- Instagram: @drcarolineleaf
- Facebook: Dr. Caroline Leaf
- Twitter: @DrCarolineLeaf
Let’s dive into our messy minds, mama.
Stop Medusa Mom in her tracks with these 10 tips to calm down before you lose your cool! Watch (or read) the free video here: https://www.patriciasung.com/calm
Dr. Caroline Leaf 00:00
Habits don't form in 21 days, they don't form in one day, they form in cycles of 63 to 66 days.
Patricia Sung 00:07
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy. You can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family. I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to Motherhood in ADHD.
Patricia Sung 01:13
Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung. Today we are interviewing Dr. Caroline Leaf. Dr. Leaf is a communication pathologist audiologist and clinical and cognitive neuroscientist who specializes in psycho neurobiology and meta cognitive neuro psychology. Her passion is to help people see the power of the mind to change the brain control chaotic thinking and find mental peace. Now, Dr. Leaf has written like a bazillion books, she's been around for decades. This woman knows her stuff. Dr. Leaf is a full fledged supporter that ADHD is not a disorder. It is a collection of traits that show how we do things differently. We show different behaviors. We feel big, we have big emotions, that doesn't make us broken. This is an extremely powerful and encouraging, although very scientific II discussion about it boils down to the fact that we have control over our brains, we have the power to change the way that we think and the way that we function. Everything she's talking about here just made my little coaching heart sing, because this is the way that I coach is helping you see that you have control over the way that you function, you are not stuck in the place that you are and you can rewrite the way that you react to things. You can build new habits, you can change the way that you talk to your family in the way that you feel when things go wrong. Like your mind is a malleable place. And you are able to create different ways of doing things and you're not stuck there. You're not broken. When you have ADHD, you're not accepting a life sentence of misery and pain. You can create healing. It is fully possible to be successful with ADHD when you have tools like Dr. Leaf is going to explain to us today in understanding how we rewrite our brains. We dive into like, what is the difference between your brain and your mind? How do we rewrite the way that we think about things and the way that we react? She dispels that myth that habits are built in 21 days, like if anybody knows this woman who has studied brains for four decades know how they work. And we dive into like, how do you work together with your feelings and your emotions and your behaviors or perspectives in order to create lasting change, not just for you, but for your kids as well. You can build a life that is different, that makes you happy, and that you love being in every day. And we're gonna start today by building that toolbox for you with the tools that are really for sharing with us. So let's dive into the interview. Alright, let's welcome Dr. Caroline Leaf to the show. How are you doing this morning?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 03:58
I'm doing so well how you doing?
Patricia Sung 04:00
I'm hanging in. It's summer and I have small kids. So this happens always and I and your kids are already older and and grown up right?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 04:13
They all but you know once the mother was the mother so I have four adult children and all four of them actually worked for me three full time and one part time so you always mother and you still always no boss should be a grandmother for the first time in three weeks time. So very excited about this. Thank you. Yeah, but I know what it looks like being a mother with children young for young children very close and age and to keep them busy. In in this in South Africa. We my kids grew up. They don't have such a long summer holiday. It's for holidays spread across the year. And I honestly think for mothers that's a godsend because you have little breaks as opposed to this one huge time pet find that you have to keep your children entertained. It's very, very hard for moms. So my hat goes off to this long summers.
Patricia Sung 04:57
Yes, I always think about that year round school. like, ah, that sounds so much better to have.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 05:02
It's great. It's really great. You know, you the kids are enthusiastic, then they need a break, you have a break. Excited to go back to school, you have a break. It's such a good design. And I've heard this talk about changing that in the state. So whether it's just talk with it will just happen with it will happen is questionable. But anyway,
Patricia Sung 05:19
yeah, it's, I mean, there's definitely areas that use it, but that'd be lovely. Okay, well, anyways, when I think about all of the titles that you have between being neuroscientists, it's a long list is this with TinyURL? Caroline thought she'd be doing,
Dr. Caroline Leaf 05:34
I was always fascinated from very young with the brain and the mind and I was going to be a neurosurgeon, I actually got into medicine, that part medicine, and I just decided that mind was your surgery is one thing, but I wanted to actually connect with the understand more about the mind was really, I'm a scientist as well. So the 10 year old will in me was already very, very interested in this field already trying to understand these things and what it was. So I sound like such a nerd, but I was very focused for very young on what I wanted to do. So it's been a life mission. I mean, I'm now 38 years in the field, almost 40 years of research and 25 years clinical practice. So it's, it's a long time. I'm so and I still love it, and still very enthusiastic.
Patricia Sung 06:17
So as you were going through all of these steps along the way, at what point did you realize like, this is so much more than just what people have been saying. Because when you look at the way that you approach the brain, it's not just what everybody's been doing all this time. You keep innovating, you keep looking at it in new ways, like do you was there like a pivotal moment where you said, Wow, this is so much more than I even imagined it to be?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 06:44
I love your question, Trisha. There were a few moments like that. And I have a very interesting trajectory, because I've watched the field over 40 years, and I've seen what happened. And there was a definite shift from the 80s, to now in how basically how people look at people that are battling with any, any level of communication. So back in the 80s, which was really great about that time period was the understanding that the mind and the brain was separate. What was bad about that stage was that they didn't think the brain could change. And that was one of my first kind of epiphanies, or pivotal moments in my career was when I was sitting in a neuroscience lecture and lecture and the lecture actually said, the brain can change. And I remember putting up my hand after this whole long lecture and saying, but you know, Professor, we as humans are changing. So if we are changing, our mind is using our brain, our brain must be changing. And he actually quite sort of snarkily said to me, oh, we'll go do research on it. So as a young student, that's exactly what I did so, and I said, Well, what areas should I work in? And you know, just what God was what he said, Well, why don't you go and study traumatic brain injury used to be called closer to injury, because there's very little research on it. Now, he was kind of being sarcastic by saying, why bother the brain once it's damaged, it's damaged, there's no good. So but I didn't see it that way. And I said, okay, and I started doing research and traumatic brain injury, and pretty much the field that shifted the field, because my work with some of the earliest work in the field on neuroplasticity, showing the mind changes the brain that the brain can always change. And we can be proud that we're not stuck with a brain in one state, your brain is constantly growing and changing. And you can actually direct the change, which is probably the most exciting thing that I've ever, that really kept me going was the fact that we as humans can direct the changes in our brain, our brain doesn't control us, we actually control the brain.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 08:28
So that sparked off a whole lot of research. And at that time, the field also was very good in distinguishing between neurological issues, and a life calmer, traveling sort of the experiences of life. So we would have mental health challenges from the experiences of life. And we would distinguish between neurological issues as someone who had a traumatic brain injury or a brain tumor or something like that, where there was Parkinson's, dementia, that kind of thing. We know that there is evidence of neurological issues. Then I watched in the 40 years of the field changing and they became blended into one field. And also around about 14, it's actually about 50 years ago, but it really came to prominence about 40 years ago, the field shifted from seeing the person in their entirety, and in the context of the life and environment and looking at when people Bethel looking at the whole big picture and looking at the whole context of their lives. That shifted, because that takes time. You know, you didn't you didn't diagnose in 15 minutes, we spent seven to nine sessions. And even then it was a prognosis versus you know, it was more of a, we think this is what's happening, and we're watching more of a prognostic approach versus diagnostic approach. And that's shifted because it takes time. That's, you know, and it's the correct way of doing it, but it's shifted to this current model, which is rebound medical, which is just quick labels, linked back to diagnosis of blending of, you know, life experiences with actual physical damage to the brain and that kind of stuff. And it was a worry and I remember also another lecturer was telling us all those years ago, that this whole the whole labeling and diagnosis, the way it's going is I want to create a huge problem in the future. And we sitting now with the worst mental health situation we ever set with visiting with people that are dying at 25 years younger than they should be sitting with crises that you can track back to that time period when our philosophy shifted. So my goal has been to really look at the psycho neurobiological process of humanity. What are thoughts? What are emotions? How do they build in your brain? What is the mind? What is the brain? And how can we actually empower ourselves and our children, to be able to manage life and manage the issues of life and make the distinction that we need to do between a traumatic brain injury, for example, and the life experience and the combination of the blending of some you can have a combination of both? So that's sort of a big walk through the big picture?
Patricia Sung 10:43
And can you tell me a little bit more of like, what is the difference between your brain and your mind? So that we can understand like, the like, where do we start?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 10:51
Good question. And most people that are I mean, as I said, back in the 80s, it was a clear distinction. So you definitely are a lot younger than when I'm nearly 60. And I assume you're probably in your mid 30s, something like that, why? Think about know, your 40s Okay, so you're still younger than I am. So you're probably you would have been you probably not over, you know, much over 40. So you've been in that timeframe, where your your entire life and your training as a teacher, I've trained 1000s of teachers as well, and has been immersed, immersed in one where the mind and the brain have kind of been seen as the same thing. And so like, in the mid 90s, when we when the FMRI machine was, technology was discovered, we could see inside the brain, and we could see the brain responding and that kind of stuff. And that's when your plasticity really became something my work was in the late 80s, early 90s. So essentially, just to harness this, it's a great attempt, just trying to think of the most simple way of answering this question. Let's be more specific to just just rephrase your question I'm trying to make sure that I don't get because there's so many ways I can answer this question, what let's hone in on exactly what you'd like me to talk about, because I can talk about so many different angles.
Patricia Sung 11:56
When you look at specifically, what's the difference between the two? Because I think so many people think they're the exact same thing. How do we differentiate? What exactly are we doing between these two things? Because then we know how to go in and actually make some change. And if we do the exact same thing, then I think it's a lot harder to
Dr. Caroline Leaf 12:11
Exactly. Very good. Okay. So as I said, most people for the last 40 years have been told the same thing, but they actually aren't. So the easiest way to understand this is to think that you are now able to have this conversation, you've got listeners in a couple of years that are many listeners that are sitting in processing this conversation. Now I'm sure we can all agree if we were dead, we couldn't do that. We wouldn't be doing anything. But right now, as you are listening to me, and I'm listening to you and the listeners are listening to us, we have this intense communication and conversation going on, which can be seen as two different things, a whole psychological think feel choose conversation in response to each other. And there's also physical component of electromagnetic light fields, electromagnetics, auditory sound waves, all kinds of things happening as well. And that combination is basically changing physical structures inside of the brain. So the mind is all this aliveness, all the psychological thing feel choose ability to respond, ability to prepare, and to have a conversation to talk about the things you talk about to just be alive and being alive, we respond. And in that response, we are living inside a brain, and we have a brain and a body. So a mind is actually separate from the brain in the body, but it works through the brain in the body. So if you think of it, in a very, very simple analogy, a light switch can't switch itself on, we actually have to switch the light switch on, that's kind of how you could also look at this, the mind is this ability that we have to switch the brain on, will actually switch the light on research the brain on, if you were dead, your brain would be doing absolutely nothing. Now it could be disintegrating, but you're alive, you're responding. And because you're responding psychologically, and on this physical level, which is all this classic and quantum physics and so on. Your brain is changing every moment. In fact, you are making somewhere between 800,000 and a million new cells every second that we talking, that is phenomenal. Your heart is pumping because of your mind, your brain is responding because of your mind your body, your lungs are helping you breathe, because if your mind if you did, that's not happening. So mind is where aliveness, your ability to experience to think feel and choose and then to create a physical response in the brain and the body, and then the brain and the body responds to the mind. So it's kind of like if I have a messy mind that's unmanaged, I'm going to have a messy brain and a messy body and a messy life. So if we can look at the managing our mind, and what that looks like, we can then help to change the structure network of our brain and the functioning of our brain and our body, which then can impact how we show up in life. And that's an ongoing process that happens pretty much all day long, and then at night as well, but it happens slightly differently at night.
Patricia Sung 14:49
And my parents want to hear about that, but also stay on track Patricia, okay. I have a whole list of questions here and I'm like I'm something you said I have to jump out it. When you have ADHD. We're really good with visual analogies and being able to picture it somehow, whether it's in, you know, a metaphor, or what have you, that really helps people, they big picture like the end result. When you say having a clean mind and the whole concept of like cleaning up your mental mess, how do we translate that into real life? Where we actually put that into practice?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 15:20
Okay, excellent question. So every human, regardless of whatever label we all may see, we are like little scientists, every moment of every day is a new experience. Even though we can predict the familiarity to a certain extent, we still can't 100% predict anything, you also don't know what's happening, when you walk out the front door, what's going to happen with the politics, etc. It's all so it's kind of messy. So we and we also have things affecting us. So everything's a little experimental, a little bit hypothetical. And that messiness is very, very normal. It's very much part of how we function as a human, what can happen those we can fall into messy patterns, which is certain ways of responding, that could they be can get stuck in. And those don't always this initially could be a coping mechanism. So for example, if a child's being abused or something, or if there's an A, or an adult, or there's a situation that's you just have to survive, and you beat recreate coping mechanisms to help us survive in the moment, but in the long term, they don't have very, they're not very good. Now, those responses are our mind coping with our experiences. And they get wired into the brain and into the body and into the mind to everything I've experienced that this conversation is going into three places, the mind as the gravitational field into the brain is a network that looks like a tree in the tree with roots and branches and its roots and tree trunk and branches, and then into the body as a change in the souls in the DNA in the epigenome, which is basically around the gene. And then also in the structure of this, what we call the cytoskeleton of the cells.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 16:45
So it's quite complex, but on a simple level, just think of it like this experience that you have, as a human forget labels forget anything else. As a human, you are processing an incredibly fast speed, every experience you have through your mind, your mind is liveness processing thing on the psychological physical level into the brain, and you are changing the brain and the body. And this psycho neurobiological link, mind Brain Body link is then combined. And magically, we show up in a uniqueness as a person in how in each situation. And so this is constantly going on this appearance coming in current or existing experiences play into that. And the unique way that we see the world plays into that. So all of these actors mix together, and we basically show up. So let's, in the ideal world, where nothing is going wrong, which doesn't happen because life is full of challenges. We are doing this kind of messy thing, and we showing up in in a in a way that is right reactions and positive and, and it's you know, the normal sort of sadness and normal kind of anxieties, which is there is anxiety and depression, these things out there, there's a normal level, then there's a level where it can kind of get out of balance. But that's not like because like we get bullied at school, we bet on for this, we better with that these things relation life, okay, so that means that our experiences don't always come in in this perfect way. And they they far mind is often dealing with erratic different kinds of toxic experiences on different levels. So if you think of a scale of one to 10, one being your day to day stuff that are not huge, maybe a little fact, the sibling bits are a major issue to the big stuff where you've been consistently abused or bullied or something like that. So and then there's the old in between. So most of us live around the one to three range. And then every five years, we'll have a big thing more or less, according to statistics. But hopefully most of us don't have many of the things in the eight 910 range, but they are a percentage of the population that had extreme challenges. So that's experiences Okay, so now all of this has been processed by the mind into the brain.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 18:43
Now the brain in itself is constantly changing. So I personally, from the research I've done, don't agree with the research that we have a brain that is neuro diverse, I believe what happens is that our brain from the end, it's me, I've been in this field for years, the brain can be changed. So we have multiple experiences, the brain will change, it will be negatively affected because the brain is simply being. If you have constant things thrown at you, it goes through the brain, it's like taking your computer and throwing it on the floor not using something probably your brain will although your brain is way more more intelligent than a computer way, way more. But it's the same thing. It's a similar physical structure. So they may see experience comes into the brain differently to a health experience, like a great conversation is going to go into the brain differently to something where there's a yelling fight or something like that. And the yelling fight will actually wire a response into the networks of the brain that looks differently. The proteins fold differently. The energy fields are different, the genetics look different. So it looks different. And over time, if that's consistent, that messiness is wired in as a physical structure that looks like a tree as well, but it's all wiry and ugly. And if anyone had ever seen any of my imagery and things I use healthy green tree and worry looking teachers to understand the concept of a thought So an experience gets wired in as a thought. And over time, if we don't manage that thought if it becomes chronic, so ongoing, and if it's a consistent pattern, whether it's an adult with issue, that does change the brain, and when the brain changes, everything else changes because the brain directs things. So we'll have a hormones change, and we'll have our neuro chemicals change. And we'll have our heart changing and, and that increases vulnerability to all kinds of manifestations on a physical and mental level, including things like concentration, and all that kind of stuff. Now, when it comes to something like a messy experience, because it's normal to have messiness, because part of being a human is you will experience messiness. What our mind brain body connection is designed for is to handle messiness, we're pretty good at actually handling messiness. But it's when things get out of control, that we then can get into get stuck. And we can get stuck in patterns of messiness.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 20:50
So then your brain's immune system actually responds to the consistent network that's novice wiry tree that's not healthy anymore. It responds by seeing that as an invasion, so we get a physical response to a psychological problem, or psychological experience that has become physical because everything that we experience becomes physical, okay, goes through this mind processing to become this physical, vibrational fields in the mind, and all these changes in the brain and the proteins and all that stuff. So if it's messy, then it's a messy looking treat, if it's consistent, that then creates an immune response exactly the same way as the COVID virus, or any virus will stimulate an immune response, a psychological issue does the same thing. So we have an immune response. And the brains, brain and body are now recognizing this invasion of this toxic experience, and it tries to fix it. And so it will say not immune factors, but if you don't deal with the source issue, then the inflammation increases, and the brain becomes hyper responsive, and the body can become hyper responsive, and your vulnerability to all kinds of medical and mental issues can increase. Okay, so that's a very, that's kind of what I mean by the messy man. So as humans, we need to give ourselves tools. And you can teach this to children as young as two some of my patients in my practice was young as to this latest book that I've just written how to help your child conductive metal, this is to help parents help their children from the ages of two, this from this book, particularly to 13, because my other books you can use with older children and adults, obviously. So you can teach a child you can give a child as young as two, the tools to be able to recognize the signals have messiness, and they are specific signals. And we can go into that it's not that difficult to understand. And I make it super easy. In the book, I put imagery and, and we have a little character called brainy who's this suit, like they call him the the superhero, that mental, your mental health superhero, and he walks the mental health journey. So the book is called how to have a chocolate with me for Macy's filled with this image of brainy will save a coloring book, and that kind of sick. So a child as young as two can point to the pictures and the images, and that all the steps and the processes and the ways that you can manage your mind and teach your child to manage your mind, you can do all through this imagery.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 22:57
And then I've got, obviously the different age groups what to say at what age we've been so on. Point being is that messiness is normal, messy parenting is normal, you talk a lot about that concept as well on your podcast, that is so normal. What we've got to do is realize, though, that in recognizing messiness is normal, we've also got to recognize we have to manage the knee. So eventually, at some point, we have to recognize when the messiness is tipping the scales to the point where now, instead of that, depression, anxiety, frustration, being at a level where it's balanced, where you can restore the scale, and you can keep moving forward, it starts tipping and overwhelm and burnout and depression and anxiety, which are not illnesses, they are basically signals telling you that something is going on in your life, when the scale tips, that's when we can feel completely drawn into states of mental challenges where we feel all kinds of extreme levels of depression and anxiety, it still doesn't make them a physical disease, they're not mental illnesses, they are signals that something's going on. So mind management involves us being able to stand back and evaluate this tipping point, you know, how am I showing up? Where am I starting to to? What is the process of how can I recognize those signals? And what is it coming from? And how can I be constructing, reconstruct and re conceptualize the situation because what brain science shows neuroscience, psycho neurobiology shows is that, as humans, we have this phenomenal ability within our messiness to stand back into our wise mind, if every human has a wise mind, even a two year old. Children are so much as you know yourself. You speak about this to children are so insightful. And you as a teacher, former teacher, you would have experienced how insightful kids actually are as well, and how we can sometimes misunderstand the amount that they do understand they're not as verbal so their current understanding is much more advanced and the ability to express themselves. So this is where we play a massive role as adults. So the messiness aspect comes in our ability to be able to stand back observe how we functioning and then to say, okay, that's not who I am. I'm functioning like this because of something in my life because of Something that's going on maybe there is a TBI, maybe there is a TBI, traumatic brain injury, maybe there is some kind of medicine that you're taking that's affecting how you function. Maybe there was some birth trauma, maybe there was, you know, something that caused some sort of a learning disability, which has the symptoms of things like the ADHD and so on, because I see ADHD not as a disease. But as a description. When you look from a brain science perspective, it's describing a set of very, very real symptoms that are symptoms, but they not a disease, it doesn't mean right, you have a broken brain, and you're not a broken person. And I love how you emphasize that too. It's just, it's basically a description of how use of personal showing up and in our very own world, it focuses very much on, you know, the bell curve. And if you don't fit in this bell curve way of thinking, then there's something wrong with you. It's wrong, that that attitude is wrong, because we are also uniquely different. So the approach that I take is that every one is so completely unique, we, we've got to be so careful that we use something like the concept of ADHD as a description of how we are beautifully and creatively showing up in our life, and how can we take advantage of that and use it to the best of our ability. So that's kind of mind management. That's the concept of mind management, which every human needs to be used differently for whatever the descriptions of our life are. And it's a process so that what I did was developed all that underlying theories and research. And I still do research, whatever, to constantly make sure that I'm up to date with the neuroscience and improving the systems have developed. The basically what I saw from the beginning is that mind management is a skill we can teach ourselves and our children, as parents, it's vital that we understand mind management, and I'll give some examples in a moment. But essentially, I took this whole concept and simplified it into a process that I call the neuro cycle.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 26:45
And the neuro cycle is a five step process that has a preparation phase, before you go into it. It's a process that helps you get into wise mind, stand back and observe how you functioning, and then go through a process of getting that under control. Basically, you can't change what's happened to you, you can't change what's going on. But you can change how you're responding, and therefore how it's gonna play out into the future. So your child, for example, is being bullied at school, because they can't concentrate maybe as well as the little Johnny's sitting next to them. And they're getting teased because they have to move more or have to go to the bathroom or whatever just to get to create that space. Or maybe you've put them on a sitting on a ball instead of sitting on a chair. Because that gentle rocking motion stimulates the brain, they're getting tea, so they've got to know the one hand the movement is helping them to concentrate more. But on the other hand, now they've got to deal with the emotional side of being bullied because they different. So this, you know that that to teach your child how to manage all the stuff that goes with that is so important. But then as a parent, I mean, if your child is really battling, and you're battling and be all better life, it's amazing parenting is missing. It's so easy to get frustrated, you've got to be kind and compassionate, you talk about that. So I don't want to belabor that point, because you talk a lot about how we need to help ourselves, have kindness towards ourselves. But we've also got to be able to process what we've gone through to be able to control our reaction. So then your cycle can be used for helping ourselves. And I was asked a question and asked us this question a lot. And I and it was something that came up actually four times in interviews just in the last few days. And that was what is the most important thing that you could tell apparent. And in relation to this messiness. Question It is, if we want to help the mental health crisis, if we want to help our children, if we want to help our children who are battling with symptoms of ADHD, and so on, and help ourselves, it starts with helping the parents, it's absolute priority, the anxiety goes through to the child, no matter how much you're trying to hide it, the child bases, everything on looking back at the parent and saying, Okay, what is wrong with me? What have I done to upset the parent. So it may be you upset and frustrated, and you react in a way that you don't want to react, and then you feel guilty, and you know, that whole cycle sets up, we need to be able to, as a parent, create that mental space that get that oxygen mask principle going, I've got to be able to breathe for myself, I've got to be able to know how to manage myself so that I can help to help my children to manage themselves. So that's a huge part of what I do in the work that I do is helping appearance to help themselves, it's probably the first level that we need to enter the situation is, let's help the parents help themselves. Let's help the teachers help themselves. And then we can take that and in that process, we can simultaneously start helping the child more effectively. So that's a long answer. But essentially, that's what managing messiness is
Patricia Sung 29:27
what do you do when you're really struggling to calm down when you're dysregulated, and your brain is offline? When Medusa mom is about to rear her ugly head, and you don't want to yell at your kids again, but you also desperately need some time and space to yourself? Well, you're in luck, Mama, because I've got a free video resource waiting for you. I'm sharing my top 10 tips for what to do when you're losing your cool and you need to resign. Each of these things you can do in under a minute with no fancy prep, so that you can calm down enough to make a different choice. Euston exploding like a volcano on everybody in the vicinity. Now since this video, you can watch what I do for easier practice. And of course, there's audio plus captions to read it. I also have a little cheat sheet underneath of all the ideas. So you can grab that list, stick in your phone somewhere so that I'm a time where you're like totally freaking out, you can go that list and quickly pick the idea that's going to help you calm down in that moment, head over to https://www.patriciasung.com/calm. Download your free video on how you can keep your cool when you're overwhelmed. That's https://www.patriciasung.com/calm, because you can learn how to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your family. So a lot of moms that I work with, like we know that we have the struggle of the mental illness, and we want to help ourselves first. And in the moment, it just feels so overwhelming and you're unhealthy trees are running the show. How do we pause in that moment to say, Okay, I'm gonna follow the five steps of the new like, like, how do we get ourselves when we're that that runaway train of just anger or frustration or whatever's going on? And to be able to pause and follow the instructions? How do we do that in the moment?
Dr. Caroline Leaf 31:21
Okay, so brilliant question. Everything that I'm about to tell you, first of all, is scientific. Secondly, it's had years of research. Thirdly, you've heard most of it already, I've just put in what I've done is no, seriously, you can also I'm not saying don't use any of the techniques that you are using, because there's some incredible techniques out there. What was missing? What identified that was the missing kind of link was how do we put all of this great knowledge that we instinctively know that everyone is talking about and has been talking about for really 1000s of years. If you think of the philosophy and spiritual side of things, as well, and how science has gone in cycles, which is normal? How can we step back for a moment and find a way of organizing our mind so that we can make our mind and brain work the way we want it to work because essentially, the law is that the mind works through the brain and the body, and then you show up. And what happens is that our mind is almost is way more insightful, or wise mind than our messy mind, it's way more insightful than our brain and our body, or messy mind, our brain and our body are waiting for direction. And as humans, we want to train ourselves to stick into the depths of our wise mind, even a two year old, there's been studies showing even eight months olds and four month olds already can start responding. They already know how to respond emotionally and you know, on the label, they can really have insight, they really feel connection and kindness and all these kinds of things, empathy, and all these interesting things. So in the moment, when something like that happens, the neuroscience is not replacing what you've done, I want to emphasize that it's just putting it in the right order of how you can actually make the change in your brain. Because what's the most frustrating thing for people I saw this with my patients over the years, and my bad experiences and mother is you know what to do, you can get great advice. I mean, you give great advice, this great podcast after this great book, some advice is really bad as he knows what, which can make you feel even worse as a parent, like a perfect parenting the you know, the sort of culture, the curated version, which is not real. But the thing is me know the stuff, but how do we actually make it happen? How do I Yes, I'm going to be kind to myself, Yes, I'm going to take self care time, yes, I'm going to do all these things.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 33:30
But how can I train myself to get to the point where I'm actually pushing the information through my brain in the right way to create a pattern in the network, have my mind and body that I'm in that situation? And I react in the correct way? Well, that takes practice number one, it's a skill that takes practice. Number two, it's got to be done in the right order. Because to build networks in the brain, via your mind and into body that will actually help you when you need the help is not going to happen overnight. So doing it once Do you wonder a cycle or listen to one great podcast. So since 1000, great podcasts is just going to give you information that you're not going to actually utilize. So the neuro cycle is very much about taking all this great advice, packaging it in the right way, so that you wire that into the networks as a habit. And habits don't form in 21 days, they don't form in one day, they form it cycles of 63 to 66 days, I'm just doing a massive another massive study at the moment where we've been confirming all of these, once again doing more insight and more depth into how long does it take to change complex behaviors, simple behaviors, you can do a little quicker. But when it comes to complex behavior now parenting is extremely complex, every child you have is extremely complex demands on you distinct alive is extremely complex. You know, and most of the research on like making things work has been done on very simple behaviors in certain it's almost like not realistic what we know as humans and what's been done in a lot of the science don't kind of match. So what I tried to do was to cover that bridge to build that bridge to create a system that allows for complex behaviors to change And how do you do overtime? So that would that preamble, essentially, it's describe a scenario, let's say that you've had a really busy day podcasting.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 35:08
And you also have to run around doing million other things. And all the technology maybe went wrong, and this went wrong and whatever, and you had a call from maybe a family member, and there's a big drama issue, maybe at work, something else happened. And so you just you frazzled, you overwhelmed, you're burnt out. And this is on the top of it being summer and it's hot, as crazy everywhere, and the kids are bored, and you just need a break. And this is a very common scenario. And so you walk in the door from this crazy day, and these toys all over the place, and there's noise and the kids friends are over. And the TV's blaring, and this just mess and it just freaks you out. I mean, this is kind of, okay to allow ourselves to do this, you will kill it, or maybe yell at your kids maybe say a few things you should didn't say, maybe kick the toys and break a toy. You know, that kind of maybe being extreme. But these kinds of reactions, when it's not, again, I can't handle this contract, see what I'm doing. I'm trying to be a mother to all of your kids, and I'm trying to work and I'm trying to podcast I'm trying to cook and I'm trying to be your psychologist and your teacher and your therapist and your friend and your it's so hard. So in those times, what we can do is instead of going into oh my gosh, I'm so bad, and guilt, which is what happens, you know, that cycle of guilt. And I don't know how many times as a young mother, I will go to bed at night feeling so guilty for the things that I had said and done, which I know I didn't mean, which were popped out because of the circumstances and what I was going through and all the rest of it. So long story short, you can do in your cycle. And that starts it when you know how to do the system you're not going to do I'm going to give you the basic overview and walk you through a basic simple one. But I strongly recommend that you actually learn the system because there's a lot more than what I'm just explaining now. And practice it. And in the book in the children's book, how to help your children clean up the information. With all the images and simple explanations, you can actually create this as a lifestyle. And in doing teaching your kids you you learn yourself as well we learn for yourself as well. I have an app called neuro cycle equity as a parent can use we are literally give you therapy walk you through the process, we can send you those links, I have a book called cleaning up your mental maze switches for adults. So if you put the three together, you have a toolbox. Now considering that your mind drives everything, it should be our top priority, managing our mind is more of a priority than managing your body. Because manage your mind manages your body. But we will put more effort into healthy nutrition not that I'm anti healthy nutrition, I write books about nutrition, your mind is going to drive the effectiveness of eating sticking to the nutrition plan also, well mind is the part of you that also drives the fact that your body's going to absorb will not absorb that nutrition. So you can have the greatest nutrition plan going for your family. But if everyone's worked up, including you, or you and you're trying to hide it, you're going to lose up to 96% of that nutrition because your body can't absorb it. So even though it's that really super healthy, organic CrossFit, whatever, you will lose the benefit of that nutrition because of the state of your mind. So with the fact that mind drives everything, mind management is a priority, an absolute priority that drives everything else in mind, and then everything else after.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 37:59
So the news cycle helps you with that aspect of your life with having a plan in place that helps to get the mind organized. And I worked for years, most of my 50% of my practice was was people that battled with ADHD and learning disabilities. And from young to old. I also work with dementia, autism, and then obviously extreme trauma and that kind of stuff. So I'm very familiar, obviously informal research and start with the the situation. So all of this that I've seen at some source has come from years of experience, and what do you do in them and being a mother for so essentially, what you want, the first thing that you want to do is prepare your brain to in that moment, when you walk in the door, you've kicked the toy in, you're screaming your head off, or whatever the case or your kids are screaming or you're trying to get a word in edgewise. And you can feel your blood just boiling. The first thing is you have to prepare your brain because your your mind Brain Body neurophysiology is out of control your brain does what your mind may see mind is telling it to do in the moment, your wise mind is driving the show that your conscious messy mind has to be literally trained to listen to the depths of our wise mind. And in those moments of high reactivity, we're not very good at doing that at least we've got networks in place. And that's basically building resilience but networks in place that will jump up and drive off functioning. and that's what I'm talking about the neuro cycle, we can pull on our resilience, which are existing networks to help drive. So the first thing if this is the first time you ever doing this, the first thing you can do is get your neuro psycho neurobiology under control by something as simple as breathing and something as simple as the most effective. There's so many different ways of doing sort of mindfulness and meditation and breathing. But what are the not got a ton of examples, but one of the tools that is so quick and so effective, is breathing in for three counts. It's called a 10 second pause. You breathe in for three and then you breathe, really put your whole stomach Miss move with like literally as you breathe in. And then when you breathe out, it's a whooshing sound you breathe out for seven counts. So it's in for three and out for seven. If you repeat that six to nine times, that's 90 seconds. It's 60 to 90 seconds, you would have put enough oxygen an implied flow in front of your brain to calm down that very activated network between your frontal lobe and your amygdala which add on if you've spoken about your audience. But most people understand I've heard that some way. Yes, it calms it down. And it gets to a state where you can actually suck windscreen wipers. If you're driving in a rainstorm. If you don't have that kind of car back that level of calmness in the frontal cortical brain, which comes from increased oxygen and blood flow in that area, which can then send the message down to the amygdala, which they consider Miss down to the heart. And then we can release hormones. And I can go on for hours about the biochemistry in your physiology, but basically, it's like driving through a massive snowstorm with no windscreen wipers, you can't do it. Okay, so you want to just clean a bit of the snow off. So six new even if you only have time for 110 second pause, that will help but I'd recommend a minute of that breathing.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 40:49
And you could be doing that as you're stepping over the toys, you won't be talking, you'd say you've yelled. But now you just go quiet and you do that breathing, you may just even want to step back out the door if you can, and breathe, close the door and then come back in again, read and do a redo, rewind, breathe, redo. Then as you walk into the toys, you can say to the kids, first step number one, you're not going to say that to the kids, I'm talking to two frames. So first thing to do step number one is gather awareness, gather gathers a very specific word, we're not just being aware, we gathering very specific. So in your mind, you say four sentences, or you can say it out loud, depending on where you're at with the, you know, this training with your kids. And I'll give you all the sort of sequence in the book, but essentially say things like, okay, how am I feeling? I am feeling frustrated and irritated and angry and tired. What does this feel like in your body? My shoulders are tense, my whole body is in a knot and my heart is going to beat out of my body. What are you doing? What are your behaviors? What are you saying? I'm yelling, and I'm angry and my tone is irritated? And I'm saying things I really do not want to say my whole body's like going into this attack mode. And maybe I'm exaggerating, but I'm just giving an example. Then the fourth sign I think you're
Dr. Caroline Leaf 41:56
in the fourth thing is what's my perspective in the moment? How am I looking at this, oh my gosh, I can't keep doing this, I need more help with it. This is crazy. Whatever. Okay, so there's four things that you've just gathered awareness of. These are signals, the emotional, physical, behavioral perspective, four categories of signals are how we show up in any one moment, you can categorize how you show up into those four signals, by slowing down after breathing, which is brain preparation. And during this gather awareness saying these four sentences, you've calmed down your psycho neurobiology even more. So your neurophysiology is going to start responding so you feel with bit more clarity. And what you've done is you've cleared the mist, you've cleared the snow with the windscreen wipers, and now you can start tuning in consciously and deliberately, to the wisdom of your wise mind, which is the core of who you are, we even talk about being wired for life in neuroscience, if there isn't a structure in your brain or body that isn't geared towards your survival. So anything that threatens survival, your your mind, brain and body are always working towards your survival. So your non conscious mind, which is the biggest part of you, which is super intelligent, operates 24/7, where all your experiences are stored is on your side. And when we tune into that level, we can then start getting a level of calmness and wisdom. And you can see this in your kids too. Because I'm sure you've experienced where you go to your kids. And you say, I'm so upset, and they say, Oh, Mommy, what happened and isn't giving you advice? And you think my goodness, why didn't I think of that.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 43:19
So even our kids have got the most incredible ability to tune in when they know how to get through the the maze. So you've gathered awareness, it's put you in the spirit insightful space, you can then follow that by answering those four signals. It's called focused reflection. So now you focus and reflect, okay, why do I feel frustrated, angry, irritated? Or just all the list? This, this this and you can answer? Why am I feeling that in my body? Well, it goes into my body, I'm feeling that and it's in it's consistent. I seem to feel this reaction when I'm feeling this, you start building a link between the emotions and the physical. Why am I saying this? Well, this is just my this, I'm reacting like this, because I put so much energy inside of me. And it's coming out and things that I don't want to say. And then my perspective, it feels like it's always happening. Why does it feel like this is always happening? You know, when where, why, what, how can a few questions on how often what is the pattern, that kind of stuff. So you're just gathering you're not solving, you're just getting the information. The third thing is then to write this down. Now in the ideal situation, you can go and sit in your little room and you can pull out your diary and you could listen, let's be real, that doesn't happen with your mother. So what I recommend is that you create a space in your environment. And what my sister in law did, which I always use as an example is she took one of the walls in her kitchen and if this is possible or not do you can adapt this down. I'll give you two options, but you paint it with a chalk paint you know that blackboard or whiteboard paint, have a thing of chalk and have a little toy box or something they will ask the basket with paper crayons pens, if you decide to get the brainy toy that comes with a book, whatever have other toys have an dedicated area that is for mind management, like we go to the bathroom to clean our teeth in the basin or in a sink whatever you call it. Getting in the basin in South African language, you go to the gym to do a workout, you go to play ball outside, you don't throw it around in house, that concept of dedicating a space is very, very, very helpful. So you go to that space or use the mom, you've done your breathing.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 45:17
And you've gathered awareness as you're walking through, but you go sit at that space and literally demonstrate a model for the child, maybe there's a nice bench day, maybe there's maybe there's a little buddy, a little cute chair or something, you go sit yourself down there, and you actually say, Okay, guys, I'm sorry, I yelled, this is what happened. And you and you actually repeat back to them what you gather and you know, the four signals, I feel frustrated, angry is simply obviously age appropriate. And you know, your dad McDaniels extreme, not done that. And you'll make it more simple, more complex, depending on the age, but you telling them how you feeling. So you get it. So you've done a little gather awareness, you've done a little reflect. And before you write, just go like and sit down and repeat that for the kids say, I felt like this, and this and this a simple version. And then why just focus reflection just very quickly, because I've had a hard day and then you start writing on the board, maybe it will picture or a face that looks angry, or write the word depending on if they literally even if they're not literate, you could draw a face on the board that on the whiteboard, or on a piece of paper that says, I am frustrated, maybe it's a smiley, smiley face, but the math is that we're on you know that upside down and makes it you're frustrated. And you just put down the words, you just doesn't even have to be fancy, you just put them all over pictures words, and then maybe the kids start drawing with you, but you are writing it down. When you do that you're actually helping your conscious mind to connect with through the subconscious, which is a portal or a doorway into the unconscious, you drawing on your wisdom. And all these very sequential steps. If you skip a step out, you don't, it doesn't have the same effect. All this is driving neuroplasticity in your brain, you're driving a network, you're pulling up that toxic reaction that maybe has been a persistent pattern, because this is being a parent as you've been appearing for a while. So these these parents will this parent from your own parenting being parented the stuff in us that is activated and triggered, as we all know. And so that starts coming up. And that's what's guiding us Then step number four, is to say, Okay, now this is what's happened.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 47:07
Now I need to do something about it. I'm really sorry, I shouldn't have said that. Now, you know why I said those things. I should rather say this, but this is why I said it's you actually walking them back through those three steps, you kind of doing a recycle through the three steps. And that's step four. So step four is to recheck where you are looking at what you've written, and you talking about what you gathered awareness on what you reflected on and why. And so now because you get in sadness, you're looking to, to reevaluate, to reconceptualize to this has happened, what can I do, and that's when you'll be so amazed. And I can tell us now from experience, as a parent, as a therapist, clinician and neuroscientist, that you will come up with solutions as you read in the recheck phase. And if you don't, your kids will, and it may not be the big world you don't work in to solve only one day. But today, what can you do today to solve this has happened, what can I do today, and maybe the kids say, Oh, Mom, I'm so sorry, we can make sure that our toys aren't at the front door, when you walk in, we can try and help tidy up a little bit more, we can help you with this or you can whatever you know this, you can start reconceptualizing mom, you need to watch TV with us or whatever. It's just Oh, whatever you looked at, according to you, but you work through collaboratively, deep meaningful connection, creating a safe space, and you've modeled for the child that I'm looking after myself. So I can look up to you. But you've given the child that message. Hey, mom also battles that also battles. But there's a way I can walk through these processes. And then you ended off with an active reach a little action. Okay, this is fine, because so much better. Thanks for talking to me.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 48:35
Let's make dinner together. Let's go for a walk with our new puppy. Let's do so you do something that kind of ends the scenario and helps you move forward. And it might just be from the recheck it might be oh yeah, I need to make a plan to not do so much just Mommy you're doing way too much you need to do lists, let's work out when you can play with us more when you can have time to watch your favorite TV show whatever it may be. And that's that it's not being done collaboratively, and it's not written down. And it's you could then have a little journal that you could each have your own journal, you take the journal, and you just make a little summary in that journal of what the discussion was, and you put it in there. I mean, this sounds like I'll take long, and at first, it will take long because you're learning the system. But once you have the system in place, you can put anything in the lab, for example, step five, which is the active reach, that's a great first place to use CBT techniques, you know, visualization with it, if you use a CBT technique, before you've even done these five steps. It won't work. It's a bandaid on the wound. So any technique without actually processing and empowering a person to understand why I feel like this, why I'm showing up like this is not going to have a long term change. And it's going to be a persistent pattern that keeps coming back and it's going to add to the feelings of oh gosh, my ADHD has got worse or something like that. We had kids that were so constrained. And over the years I've had in clinical practice and in schools and this February there were so constrained by the diagnosis that they didn't ever feel that they'd be able to learn that ended up becoming top students academics. thing and you know, running businesses and that kind of thing. And I've seen it too often, I've seen it to the research. And also, obviously, you've got to look at scientific research as well as just clinical experience, but it's other clinicians as well. So that is a big picture, what I would recommend people do is, if you're interested to get into this, what I had basically described is a simple process that makes sure that you make the brain and I'm holding up a brain for those of you that are just listening, I'm holding up a brain, it's not a real one and model of the brain, I'm holding up the little green plants that chose a healthy thought. So just think of green trees outside and I'm holding up a wiry looking toxic tree.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 50:39
This the trees represent or experiences or thoughts, thoughts, or experiences and thoughts or negative memories. So every experience like that experience you've had at school, or whatever went on in your day to make you walk in the door like that would have been a bunch of memories that formed into a tree with the thing that actually happened in the roots, how you processed it, and in the branches or the interpretation and how it should, then that combination is how it shows that how does things show up through your four signals, what are the four signals your emotions, your behaviors, which your body sensations and your perceptions. So what I've done in the book, and in my app is I teach you the slowly take you through it day by day, little mini lessons in the app. In the book, I teach exactly how to help your child understand what a thought is that you have happy trees and said trees and we live in happy trees or like blue, you have a great conversation or you learn something at school that you love or you.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 51:27
So most of the time, we've got happy trees, good thing for everything falls into these three networks, and they guide us but sometimes we have the bad ones and the bad ones can then make us act in certain ways. And that doesn't mean that we have to stay stuck like that. But we are so overcharging for behavioral problems that make them make them seem like they are naughty and need more discipline. Sure, I'm not saying allow bad behavior. What I am saying is that, see that behavior is one of four signals telling you something so yes, you don't want them to be hitting the sibling biting someone or throwing toys or you know roundel. Speaking in an ugly way, obviously, we want to shape that behavior, help them to understand the impact of that behavior. But you can go and do that in your mind management corner, like I've described. So this is thinking how we show up as a mum, or a dad, or as a child, we can allow ourselves to feel that recognized for who we are, and then we're going to their little part of our home and kind of work at it. Now realistically, you're not always going to be at home, you're going to be in the car, you're going to be at the shop, you're going to be on the beach, you're going to be walking in the park, you're going to be at a friend's house, which when they love to do the things that you don't want them to do. You know, every way that you you can, once you've got the system in place, you can remind your child let's do a new cycle, let's calm down, let's do and once they understand how to do it, which honestly, these kids learned quicker than adults, I can tell you that now they learn. If you follow the like the sequence of the book, they learn learn what you put into each of those steps. Once you understand the basic principles, and you go through all five steps, you know how to do brain progression, it's easy to work out nice little system that you can put into those five steps so it can be applied and adapts to everything. Last thing I want to say about that is on the learning side, one of the things with as we all know with when you've got symptoms of ADHD is a touch, concentrate and learn and build knowledge. A lot of my cutting edge research that I started with was to help children how to learn when they were battling at school with ADHD symptoms. And so the neuro Psych was initially developed for people with traumatic brain injuries, who battled academically as well as with the emotional side. But I first started with the academic side how to learn. So the nurse cycle teaches you how to get information from the textbook from the teacher and the notes, whatever, into your brain and then out again. So it's the cycle. So it's also excellent for helping with that. So basically how you get inflammation in your brain and build your brain that you can use it. And then also when you are showing up with our signals that are disruptive, how can we say that's not who I am, because we want to keep our identity intact. I have a whole chapter in that book on labels and identity and all that kind of stuff, and trauma and all that social interaction work.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 53:56
So there's a lot of information in the book to make it simple and healthy, that we want to teach our children to kick them back into learn, here are the steps to build it into my brain so that I can make this knowledge useful. If I've got a feeling very angry and said that energy is pent up, they don't know how to express it. I have a way I can as a two year old I can go pick up brainy point of contact, I can point to pictures in the book, I can make brainy, do things. So you could like if you got a young child, for example, and you see your child pick a child up from day camp, and they are very upset and they were torturing they're just sitting in the backseat and they're kicking the chair or they're throwing a tantrum or something, or they're refusing to eat or they're just refusing to communicate. And you have been in the car for example, the idea is to just say I see Brian is very upset today. Bernie doesn't want to eat bread. He's kicking the chair brand is really sad. What's wrong with brainy and we all know that when you for a young child when you allow them to do the sort of transference on to something else. That's the way it's play therapy basically, how they can then communicate. So it's having a designated character, like brainy a designated space and a designated system within which you've had all the great knowledge that you'll really have gained as parents from the good rate information. It's outdated. But I'm giving you a system that actually will help you wired into your brain to make long term changes that are effective and useful to help you and your child long answer. hope that made sense.
Patricia Sung 55:10
Yes, no, I think I'm I could ask 37 More questions to follow up. And I think the most important things for us to know is that our brain is not static, it's not stuck that way. There is clearly decades of research that tells us that we can change our brain, we can change the way it functions, we can change the way we wire we can change our habits. And it's really comforting to the mom to know that even though you have those days, where you are so mad at yourself, you know, at the end of the night, you're just kicking yourself and all the things that you could have done differently is that you don't have to stay there. That's not the place that you are sentenced to for the rest of your life, that there is hope. And there are systems out there and ways that you can learn that fit the way that our brains like to absorb information. And you can make changes and react in different ways. And that there is hope there's light out there, it doesn't have to stick
Dr. Caroline Leaf 55:59
this, there's so much hope your brain is always changing. And the key is that you can direct change, and you can teach your child how to direct the change. And you know what's so interesting, and this is, I think, related to this, which is adding to this level of hope, because I know how hopeless some of my patients felt. I know how some of the moms who are listening to you feel I know you've experienced it yourself. And I know being a mom of four, it's you can feel so hopeless at some stages. So this research has inspired me as a parent. And what I want to share with you there's a study that is a series of studies, and some of them were quite recent, that have been used a lot in the ADHD language.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 56:34
And I'm not saying ADHD doesn't exist. I'm not saying that I'm just saying that it's not a disease, or the way according to the science, it's a group a cluster of symptoms that are part of and there will be if you think of the full signals, emotions, behaviors, perspectives, and bodily sensation, it's under the behaviors. And then it obviously nothing, those four always go together. So you're going to have the others going along with it. So essentially, the research that that is, you may have heard of the research, you may even have spoken about research, you may even have had people on your show to have spoken who have spoken or referenced research that was done in 2012, specifically, and then there was another study that in 2017, I think it was. And they say that brains of ADHD children and adults look different to people that that don't have ADHD, that research has been completely shown to be inaccurate, when they re analyze that research and then looked at the statistics, it was incorrectly presented. But it's the most quoted research out there. The research around that shows that when you tell someone your brain is different, you're really betting out to be told my brain is different, and the importance of the brain with the hope you can remove hope from the child and you can remove hope from the parent. And then it's almost like, Okay, well, I've just got to live with this terrible thing.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 57:44
And now there's something wrong with me as an individual here this, that science was not accurately presented. And it's very upsetting that it was to so many parents, but most parents don't. And most people in this world don't realize that that research was in accurately presented, and that they actually was no difference here. There's no difference in the brain of an ADHD person with ADHD and a personal so called normal that this whole thing that in person is born genetically broken with. And that's why they have ADHD is not the correct messaging is we actually don't know why people battle with those symptoms. There could be so many reasons. So for us to say definitively, but I don't say but for this, it's the science doesn't back that up or net where the hope comes it exists is definitely, there's definitely a cluster of symptoms that definitely manifest and in our way that our world is structured, then no, they don't serve us very well, we have to learn to that. There's no two ways about it, I wanted to just share that with you that this hope and this hope as well, that means that my brain can change, I can direct it in the direction I wanted. And that means your child as well.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 58:45
And then you can make those so called negative symptoms into positive symptoms, and make that energy that they generate work for you because energy is never lost. It's just transferred. So you know, this concept of depression is not bad, it's actually good for you. It's been a tip so then we don't manage it and a trypsin becomes debilitating, same things with those symptoms, those symptoms, so called symptoms ADHD, they're not bad, a lot of those are they've been pathologized. But if they're not managed and directed, and use correctly, they can. And that's, you know what you've all experienced. So if you can keep them managed. And that's what I found using the neuro cycle for learning was a powerful tool to help to direct that energy of the concentration and, and getting yourself organized. It was a phenomenal way. So if you use a parallel kind of approach of the using your circle for learning, I have a whole book called SIGPLAN succeed on that. And we've got a whole program being built into the app as well on how to use it for learning. I talk about a little bit in the book as well. Then you parallel that with the neuro cycle for managing mental health issues. You've got a two pronged approach to help to manage things that can be very overwhelming and they can work for you instead of against you.
Patricia Sung 59:48
Okay, on that note, I've got my lightning round questions that before I ask those, where's the best place for moms to follow you find you obviously you have the book coming out when around when this podcast is airing. Till was how the moms listening can can get some more of this.
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:00:03
My social media handles Dr. Caroline Leaf, and my web page is Dr. Leaf and I have a podcast called Cleaning Up the Mental Mess. There's tons of stuff for parents kids on both give up my work is geared towards adults and children. So parents, some people on parents as well, as we know. So that's the best place in the books available wherever books are sold and have lots of books. But the latest that's coming out that we've been talking about is how to help a child clean up their mental mess. Okay,
Patricia Sung 1:00:27
so here's the lightning round, you don't have to explain anything, you just fill in the blank. So number one, the best thing that I've read or listened to recently is,
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:00:36
Your Honor, I read so much. I'm very biased towards brain research. So the research papers around what's happening in the field of psycho neurobiology is very exciting for me. And the fact that it's been such a shift in the world of neuroscience and communication pathology and second year biology in the field of learning issues is hugely important. So I know that sounds so boring, but for me,
Patricia Sung 1:00:58
I mean, I think if someone's listening to my podcasts, they probably love brain so. Okay, number two, my most boring about me fact is
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:01:10
love, love question. This person says, I love watching things like Downton Abbey. Boring. Okay,
Patricia Sung 1:01:17
number three, when I'm having a rough day, my go to quote, song, poem, book, podcast activity, whatever it is,
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:01:24
I'll actually take my dogs for a walk on the beach, or I'll start doing some work around science papers too. So I tend to find that I get lost in there too. If I'm really worked up, I'll go and get lost in my research. So dogs and my husband will go for walks and it's time for walk. Now let's go for a walk.
Patricia Sung 1:01:40
Okay, number four. Don't tell anyone I
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:01:44
love so much coffee. I drink coffee all the time, it's in my blood.
Patricia Sung 1:01:48
Number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell, I would, I would
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:01:53
really help people to understand the fact that your mind can be changed, your mind can be managed. You can't change the events and circumstances of life, but you can learn how to change your wrists reactions and responses.
Patricia Sung 1:02:04
And last one, number six, my best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:02:10
work on yourself and give yourself a lot of compassion, that kind of stuff. But this oxygen mask principle.
Patricia Sung 1:02:15
Thank you so much for being here. I wish I had another four hours to pick your brain because I absolutely love what you're doing in the field and giving us help that we can be different we can we can do things differently and find a way to be happy, even given the crazy mess of circumstances that comes along. So
Dr. Caroline Leaf 1:02:35
thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. I enjoyed it so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Patricia Sung 1:02:41
For more resources, classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com.